When it comes to gemming, enchanting and reforging; I can barely work out what is OK for my own spec, let alone anyone else. So when in doubt, I ask Mr Robot. On top of that I am trying to work out what gem cuts to buy next for my JC.
Today, I looked up the PVE recommended gems for various specs with (apparently) best in slot gear.
I won't pass much judgement about the theory crafting behind some of the decisions, though I am sometimes confused (Pally tanks value dodge & parry more than mastery - yet are recommended pure mastery gems? Diminishing returns?)
I was specifically looking for recommended Dream Emerald cuts. There is 1 (Puissant - Mastery/Stamina); There is also only 1 recommended Amberjewel (Fractured - Mastery).
I have not looked at any PVP gem cuts, unsure where PVP players get their recomendations.
Players wear all sorts of gems, and get their advice (or lack thereof) from lots of different places.
Some even think any epic gems must be better than any rare gems (they are not - the epics are northrend and carry less bonus than a cata rare), so don't restrict your sales to this list.
However, being aware of what some knowledgeable players will be picking up is still a good idea. My consolidated list of gems as recommended by Ask Mr Robot for BIS Tier 12 is here on google docs.
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Careful with basing anything on BIS lists. The percentage of people using AMR or comparable sim/optimization tools is low, but the percentage of those even close to BIS itemization is miniscule. For example a BIS arcane mage set would have you gem pure int across the board, but anything lower than BIS and gemming recommendations vary wildly depending on gear combinations. At 370 ilvl my mage sockets 3 veiled demonseye and an artful ember topaz based strictly on AMR's recommendation.
ReplyDeleteYou can get more information about your server's gem market by just taking five minutes and a good hard look at the AH than you can by spending an hour compiling BIS data.
Ya, Mr robot is confusing me also. For DK tank they show the magmaw 359 weapon (worm-breaker) higher on the list than the new 365 elementium deathblade?? All stats are higher except worm-breaker has expertise gain rather than haste. But that is what reforge is for right? Considering the fact they have me reforge from expertise for dodge anyways I will be equipping my newly crafted deathblade, thx Mr robot...
ReplyDeleteBiS is nearly immpossible to dtermine nowadays with reforging. BiS should only be used as a very general guide. use common sense and your best judgement to determine what you will ultimately craft.
ReplyDeleteas for pally tanks, mastery all the way, even reforge outta threat stats till you reach cap (102.4%), after that replace mastery with dodge, parry, while still remaining at cap. mastery = straight block with no diminishing returns for a pally.
Mr Robot is good for gemming and chanting gear but it's out lunch when it comes to stat priorities and reforging... For Paladin tanks anyhow.
ReplyDeleteBTW there are no diminishing returns on block chance which is what we get from Mastery.
ReplyDeleteFor Paladin tanks Mastery is better than Dodge or Parry after about 11.5% and 12.5% respectively and it's really easy to reach those targets.
For a list of gems to sell though you'd be better off using www.wowpopular.com. Sales on our server might be slightly different than the average server but they'll be close enough it doesn't matter.
The only thing I would add is that I also have have some luck selling Steady and Vivid Dream Emeralds, although at a slower rate than Puissant on my server. Far and away, Inferno Rubies in the Primary stat cuts (Bold, Brilliant and Delicate) are the top/fastest sellers.
ReplyDeleteI am not too woried about what is (or is not) BiS; even on my own toons. I take advice, but am prepared to be 'wrong' (I am more likely to gem for socket bonuses than accepted wisdom suggests).
ReplyDeleteI will assume that most players already have their existing gear gemmed, and will be moving closer to BiS than they currently are. (Only a vaguely correct assumption for many players)
I am interested in future trends. Just as authorities in the gold blogs shape supply simply with our posts; authorities about gear will shape demand.
"Ask Mr Robot" is both representative of Elitist Jerks and more accessible to the average player, so counts as an authority.
If you know where demand will be moving towards, you can ensure you fill at least that demand.
Mr. Robot is happy to hear you are using his website to help you make gold! There are quite a few people using it for that purpose (anticipating the market), and making great in-game profits.
ReplyDeleteI saw a few comments on the tank recommendations here. You were correct in your initial post that Mr. Robot weights stats before diminishing returns, and then applies DR during optimization, resulting in the correct balance of dodge/parry and mastery on gear. This usually results in gemming for mastery. Our suggestions currently default to optimizing gear to minimize total damage taken. We will soon be adding a Preset for Paladins that optimizes CTC (Combat Table Coverage) which will use even more Mastery. Maximizing CTC does not always maximize total damage mitigation, though!
Mr. Robot's default stat weights are researched to a great extent. We read everything we can from small blogs to well-known sites such as EJ. Where necessary, we create our own theory or correct the theory we find. The gem suggestions that Mr. Robot makes are all going to be very close to what most people will actually do.
And... to respond to the comment that only a very small part of the WoW community uses a tool like Mr. Robot. You are correct that not many people use other tools, but, Mr. Robot has been visited by over 1,600,000 users. Just since patch 4.2 hit, 463,000 visitors have done over 5,000,000 optimizations on the site! We're always trying to visit the blogs of users and talk with folks about how they are using it. Good luck to you!
For what to buy, use the Robot.
ReplyDeleteFor what to sell, use WoW Popular.
What players *should* be buying and what they *are* buying are not always the same, so you may want to sell the less...optimized...gems as well.
"I am interested in future trends. Just as authorities in the gold blogs shape supply simply with our posts; authorities about gear will shape demand."
ReplyDeleteMy point was that as gear approaches BIS itemization, it doesn't necessarily move directly towards BIS gemming in a linear fashion. Additionally, the majority of the playerbase is not, and will ever be, in BIS T12.
If you're not knowledgeable about other classes and their stat priorities, sure it's enlightening to look at Mr. Robot's class/spec BIS profiles. But the big disclaimer you find on places like Elitist Jerks is that BIS lists exist in a vaccuum and BIS stat weights are not to be applied to your own gear. In the same vein, I wouldn't place any faith in a BIS gemming list's market prediction value.
Based on your spreadsheet adept ember topaz is a low demand gem. Yet it's one of my higher grossing non-inferno ruby gem cuts. In my experience when picking up gem cuts the best route is to pick up all the cuts you can use for your own toon first. Then pick up the big three inferno ruby cuts. With the rest of the cuts, all of intuitively "good" demonseye and ember topaz cuts will gross roughly the same amount over time (more or less depending on your server) and your best bet is to just buy cuts based on current price and roll with the market.
Without being disrepectful to intelligent players, they're aren't many of them out there. Mastery is king for all tanks right now, especially DKs. Yet some of my best sellers are the pure +60 stamina gems and I don't know how many times I've qued into a dungeon as a dps and seen a tank who has stacked stamina.
ReplyDeleteDon't limit your sales to only the intelligent players who research they're class, specs, and playstyles. If you don't cater to the morons, you might go broke!
P.S. Hate to be so cynical, just had a few bad days with pugs and randoms recently.
Seconding the above comment. Solid Ocean Sapphire is *by far* my most sold gem behind the three main inferno ruby cuts. On my server the average sale price is comparatively low (MySales shows an average sale price of 33g). But if you neglect to pick up this cut and let the blue uncut gems collect dust in your bank, you're only doing yourself a disservice. Why? Because you would have failed to identify consumer demand. (I assume the whole point of this post was an exercise in how to identify consumer demand)
ReplyDeleteUmm. I'm not planning on neglecting *any* cut, people buy the strangest gems. I already have approx 40 gem cuts as well as jewelery.
ReplyDeleteI have (largely) avoided PVP cuts, simply because I don't understand what is good and what is not. I am about to pick up them anyway.
I still earn more profit selling Northrend Epics than I do selling cata rares.
I was looking for (primarily) 'good' green cuts, and secondly to ensure that I was not missing BIS gems as determined by a reputable source. This was useful for me. You should ensure you have these gem cuts.
That does not stop you from having other cuts as well. If you have more raw gems of a certain colour, get your next cut of that colour.
When you see someone using sub-optimal gear, you should tell them to check out Mr. Robot!
ReplyDeleteYou are definitely right that a very large number of players use the "wrong" gems - it makes total sense to cater to what people want, not necessarily what is "right".
Chocotaco - you mention that EJ tells us we cannot apply BiS stat weights to "our" gear, since technically every set of gear needs its own set of weights calculated for it. Mr. Robot has proven this to be wrong for most classes since Cataclysm came out. You can definitely use our stat weights at any gear level (with some exceptions that we have noted) and achieve optimal or near-optimal gear setups. That statement may have been true before stats became even more homogenized, but the EJ folks didn't bother to actually check if it held true in Cataclysm. We checked ;) And then we built in some nice features to handle classes with stat discontinuities like hit caps, hast soft caps, diminishing returns, etc.